The debate over Hawaii's vs. Nebraska's "scrimmages"

August 25th, 2013
By

I hope you will read this in its entirety, since it addresses the 'apples and oranges' of the two events, including what Shoji thought after hearing what Nebraska had been able to do.

Since the comments got mixed in with what was going on with the scrimmage, thought we could use a thread solely dedicated to it. There seemed to be some misconceptions as to who, for lack of a better term, was in charge of the scrimmage. Nebraska's was done by the athletic department, UH's by the volleyball booster club.

The facts about Nebraska's on Saturday, a special event created by the athletic department to celebrate the opening of the newly revamped Devaney Center.

It was a Red=White scrimmage that had the varsity against its alumnae greats, including some of their Olympians and All-Americans. It was $10 for reserved seating $8 to stand. This was held in the newly revamped Devaney Center which, while it seats 13,000 for basketball, has about 8,000 for volleyball. They sold it out at 8,243, grossing around $80,000, a nice chunk of change.

They had an official commemoration (blessing if you would) of the facility and the court named for retired coach Terry Pettit. It was the first chance for fans to see the new place and likely will be the only time some of them will this season since season tickets have sold out. However, not all tickets were season tickets; there are single-match tickets left, limited to 4 per household.

It sounds like it was a very special night and the university took full advantage with its promotions. Those who care about the sport and its growth should applaud that Nebraska finally got on board by recognizing the interest in Husker volleyball, which had been limited — except for the rare occasion — to playing in the 4,000-seat Coliseum. Part of that decision was made by the volleyball program because it liked having that home-court advantage. It also made for a situation where it was a hot ticket because of the limited number.

Nebraska's move to the Big 10 likely forced the move a larger venue, where most of the Big Ten plays in big arenas.

The issue on the other thread was with Hawaii's annual scrimmage, which technically was open to only booster club members and family. (I seem to remember when there was times it was open to the public at no charge but my memory is not what it used to be).

Anyway, Wahine booster club — and how many programs even have a booster club dedicated to the sport ? — is the one that initiated having the scrimmage as part of the booster club responsibilities. It has been their tradition for a while, allows for members to get a tour of the Stan Sheriff Center, welcoming the new members, and hosting its first meal for the team of the season. The club officially organized in 1987 but loosely organized, mostly by parents of the players and former players, in the 70s. The 'closed' scrimmage is one of their perks for joining at $175 a season. This is the only place I know of where the opposing team is fed after a match (if they have not flight to catch) as well as the Wahine team fed, courtesy of the boosters.

All that being said, there were those who criticized the 'public' being shut out. Actually, there seemed to be only one person. There never seemed to be a problem with this in the past. And took the opportunity to continue the rant agains the athletic department in general, which had nothing to do with the event.

Same person took issue with 'everyone around the country, even some Big West teams' tweeting about the excitement  surrounding their scrimmage.'  I would question who the target audience is, the general public or their respective student bodies. Which group is more likely to follow those programs?

Randomly looking at some of the Big West attendance, CSUN averaged 435, skewed by the season-high 734 against UH. UCSB averaged 279 UH the big draw again at 451.

Having problem with finding the Beach stats but they drew around 2400 for UH.

My point being, just because one tweets about the excitement of something going to happen, doesn't mean it will be reciprocated. These are volleyball programs begging for people to come.

Although UH didn't put up a recap of the scrimmage, there was an extensive story in the Star-Advertiser, complete with a photo gallery. I feel confident in saying that no other volleyball program in the country gets the level of coverage in the paper, and now TV and radio, as do the Rainbow Wahine. Certainly there is no other blog out of a paper dedicated to the sport in general.

But to be fair to the critic, he/she had a point that UH missed an opportunity to fund raise a little by selling tickets to the scrimmage.

Shoji was interested in what Nebraska had done. He knew there had been over 7,000 there but asked me if Nebraska was 'playing anybody.' I was wrong when saying it was just themselves; didn't realize at the time it was a star-studded alumnae roster.

But we both agreed that it was a special occasion with the opening of the new Devaney Center that helped with the draw. I later told it they had about 8,200 and, as the critic challenged me to do, asked him what he thought about maybe doing something like it.

He said it was something to be considered, given the success of Nebraska's.

Since that same critic questions whether Shoji should be believed when saying some things, all I can say is, I believe him when he says he'll take a look at it.

Again, Nebraska's successful night is to be applauded. But it was a highly touted special event. It was reminiscent of the night the SSC opened in 1994. It was a sellout and there's no way everyone there came to watch UH play San Jose State. They wanted to be part of something special, the opening of the arena, as did Nebraska fans.

One last point, and I thank you for wading through this:

Nebraska has already set the bar this year. They likely will average 8,000-plus. UH has only been above 8,000 once, that in 1996.Still has led the country in attendance every year in 1994. Last season, it was 6,675.

While I try to stay objective in most things. it would be nice if Shoji's milestone season could be celebrated by keeping the attendance record in Hawaii.

Thanks, as always, for reading.

113 Responses to “The debate over Hawaii's vs. Nebraska's "scrimmages"”

  1. Dedicatedfan:

    Well, I read through the whole thing, Cindy. LC is not alone, in wanting the scrimmage opened to the public for a small price. How much more did the booster club raise, by keeping it private, rather then opening it up to the public for a small price. Even though it is a booster club function, they could have killed 2 birds with one stone, by opening it to the public, for a price, and also, having their dinner function after for members only.

    One other question, in 1994, the opening of the SSC, was the scrimmage opened to the public, like the way Nebraska did this weekend? It seems that the UHAD and Booster Clubs are always one step behind everybody else. Both are always complaining about not having enough money, wanting people to contribute. But when a golden opportunity to raise such money, they turn their back on it. Makes one want to shake their heads, and wonder what is really going on. Hope the Booster Club does not come crying to the public for contribute money, cause they had a golden opportunity to do so, with this scrimmage.


  2. tako:

    Thank you, that being said, the bar has been raised. Wouldn't it be great to have 8,000+ fans in the stands, SSC will rock out and the Wahine will run to number 1 in more ways than one.-nuff said


  3. Dedicatedfan:

    Oh, forgot One VERY important thing, the booster club needs to remember, the Wahine Volleyball Team, is not their team, but Hawaii's team. More importantly, the University of Hawaii's Team, keeping the students from seeing their team play, even in a scrimmage, makes it the Booster's Team, only. The Booster Club can come up with other ways for their boosters to get to know the players.


  4. Warriorfan:

    Nebraska played in a newly opened arena and against an Alumnae team including former olympians, UH had an intra-squad scrimmage..... People complaining need to get a hobby.

    I personally think it's great that booster club members get a few perks.


  5. Dedicatedfan:

    Warriorfan, I am guessing you also want the Football Spring Scrimmage, Midnight Ohana, Baseball, and Softball scrimmages, all closed to the public, and only open to their Booster Club members only.


  6. Warriorfan:

    2. Tako I think UH would have gotten well over 8,500 for friday's match if the match was on pay perview. I know lots of people that just will watch from home instead since it will be free on tv.


  7. setaone:

    1. The SSC (then named the Special Events Arena) opened not with a scrimmage but with an actual game against San Jose State.


  8. Dedicatedfan:

    7. setaone, wrong, it was actually opened with the scrimmage that was attended only by the booster club members.


  9. KiMo:

    If my memory serves me correct, Hawaii use to play the Alumni before the start of the season that was open to the public in the mid 90's. However, an unfortunate injury occurred during this scrimmage to Shelley Kim? Who was slated as the heir apparent to Nalani Yamashita. Shoji never had an alumni scrimmage to start the season again ever again.


  10. hossana:

    To Dedicatedfan and all that wanted the scrimmage to be open....stop your Moaning and Groaning and attend all the UH Wahine volleyball games and lets get our attendance to a full house....how many of you have already bought season tickets...btw, I have for the past 5 yrs.....or attend ALL the wahine volleyball games....geezus, there are more important things to gripe about than something manini as this.....besides the first match with Texas, let's get fan support, at least, over 6 or 7 thousand per game and not just tickets sold but by people in actual attendance....nothing more and nothing less.....GO WAHINES!!!


  11. LC:

    I love being a critic is a pasture filled with sheep.


  12. Dedicatedfan:

    9. hosanna, you are really missing the point. The major point in opening the scrimmage to the public is, the Booster Club could have raised money for the Wahine Volleyball team. Instead, of keeping it private for Booster Club members only, and raising zero money.


  13. Dedicatedfan:

    10. LC, I am NO sheep, and you know it.


  14. setaone:

    8. Reread what Cindy wrote.

    "Again, Nebraska’s successful night is to be applauded. But it was a highly touted special event. It was reminiscent of the night the SSC opened in 1994. It was a sellout and there’s no way everyone there came to watch UH play San Jose State. They wanted to be part of something special, the opening of the arena, as did Nebraska fans."

    It opened October 21, 1994.


  15. Purple&Green:

    Thanks, again, Cindy for sharing all the Mana'o. You LOVE to write, eh?!
    You, Ann, Dave have looong fostered relationships over the MANY years I'd think?!
    ..have always enjoyed the knowledge and insight.

    1994: Would've prefered, I remember thinking at the time, a match against UCLA, Pacific, LBSU, or Santa Barbara for THE event, but heh.

    NOT sure IF this is going to work, but..
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/307735_4586871239098_1505469887_n.jpg
    *A huddled photo of Robyn, Jenny, Angelica, Therese, Sarah.
    All mainly, on shutter, with their okoles cropped in skintight green colored spandex lol.


  16. Dedicatedfan:

    Cindy, you should submit what you wrote to your editor, to be printed in Monday's Sport Section.


  17. innocent observer:

    believe that any scrimmages at the start of the season for any sport should be free to the public. this is one way of thanking those who support the teams; to charge for scrimmages is uncouth; charging for actual games is fine. yes, agree with the person that suggested that the wahine volleyball scrimmage be opened to the public - it is just good publicity; the booster club should be willing to share with other fans.


  18. Ron:

    Cindy, your treatise on the subject was well written and explained the situation intelligently and concisely. Unfortunately, some people will never get the concept of "apples and oranges."


  19. Grammy:

    Cindy. Thank you for injecting sanity into this topic. Scrimmage vs. alumnae match and court dedication sort of apples vs. oranges. Also wouldn't charging admission invole ticket sellers, ticket takers, security, ushers, food concessioneers, janitors, etc. which would cut into any ticket sales? I don't see any problem with the boosters exclusive scrimmage. Just become a booster and receive the perks and support the team directly with your $$$. I believe the boosters fulfill an important and totally gracious Aloha factor for our beloved Wahine and their opponents, too. Can't pay enough for this kind of goodwill. Go Wahine! Go Bow Boosters, too!


  20. Surfdad:

    #10-LC

    Just some food for thought. Usually when you are the ONLY one seeing something a certain way it often means YOU ARE WRONG! in your opinion.


  21. wampam:

    Hey everybody... you are missing the point! The event is open to booster members. They pay at least $175 and many invest much more for the privilege of attending that and other functions. The club membership is open to the public. So, what's stopping you from joining? If you were such loyal fans it would be a privilege to support the program and be able to attend.

    Too much money? I used to think so when membership was $50.00. But, over the years it was obvious to me that it was a bargain for all that I have received. SO instead of complaining. Join up! and be part of the program.


  22. Cindy Luis:

    1. Wow DF with all I wrote all you can get out of is the hope that booster club doesn't come crying for money? This was a one time special event for Nebraska and it was a success.
    They may or may not do it again, in terms of having fans pay for the scrimmage. But it was a very night for HuskerNation and the sport was celebrated.
    You really are missing the points I was trying to make.


  23. Cindy Luis:

    7. DF, the SSC was not opened with a scrimmage. The first event was mid-season vs. San Jose State


  24. Cindy Luis:

    20.Which is why I said $80,000 gross and not net because of the expenses incurred.
    seriously beginning to think the 30-40 minutes it took me to try to look at it objectively and say that LC had a point was more a waste of time on my day off.
    For many years, the final day of practice was just that, the final day of practice. wasn't a big deal and nothing was made of it. There was no Gym 1 or II. It was in Klum and no one really went to practices, which Shoji usually closed anyway


  25. Hot:

    Change topic. I hear that aside from Hartong and Uiato, there will be new faces in the other positions. Vorster will move to OPP, where she will provide blocking. Tuaniga will be in the middle with Nikki Taylor. Ginger Long will be the libero because despite all her skills, she is just too undersized to play front row. The other left side will be split by the Goodman sisters. Kaela has been very versatile in practice and Kyra has turned out to be a surprisingly consistent left side.


  26. vballfreak808:

    I do not understand why this is happening. The Hawaii match and Nebraska match are two different things. Nebraska's match was an alumni match and the Hawaii match was a scrimmage. Hawaii does have an alumni match but that is just during the season which IS open to the public. Either way we don't even know Nebraska has a booster club like Hawaii to show matches too. The only other team that has a booster club is Minnesota and they were allowed to go to an open practice today and watch just a normal scrimmage.


  27. Cindy Luis:

    26. Hot, thank you for adding some levity to the thread that has only given me a headache.
    27. VBF. thanks. don't understand why the comparisons are being made either since it was a short inter-squad scrimmage vs. a very special alumnae match.
    It would be nice (for Shoji) if there was a big effort by the alumnae to show up for the Oct. 18 match.
    Which is not televised, for those who need to complain about that again.
    inquiring minds will also want to know if LC will be willing to pay to see the varsity-alumnae match. which is a doubleheader. alum vs. alum prior.


  28. LC:

    What I love about myself is that I'm always right-Kevin O'Leary Shark Tank billionaire.

    Nebraska wins while Hawai`i snoozes.Nebraska knows how to make money while Hawai`i is stuck in the 80's and the apologist make excuses.


  29. LC:

    The blogger wants to know if I will be willing to pay to see the varsity-alumnae match.What I want to know is how many times has she paid to get into the SSC.

    #10-Surfdad please report to the barn we are sheering the sheep today.


  30. tako:

    It seems this issue has lost its big picture understanding. Does the scrimmage bring in money into the program, answer? Yes, as paid by the boosters. Should there be a charge to attend a scrimmage open to the public? Maybe not, when you consider all the other expenses, the cost might outweigh monies charged. Plus, who's to say the people will come to a scrimmage to make it worthwhile? Also, for the coaches and players the scrimmage is the final dress rehearsal prior to the first game, it is still practice; as such, the coaches need the flexibility to adjust...maybe, even "stop" for a while to take advantage of a coachable moment. Having a staged event, may not allow needed flexibility. At the end of the day, wouldn't it be best to allow the coaches and players to do what they gotta do and then everyone show up at the "games." If people attended the games, wouldn't they make monies? Additionally, people support the team at the games... so come on now...don't sweat the small stuff.


  31. wop ur jaws:

    UH had the chance to make the arena bigger, they opted for the smaller size. The topic up was brought years ago. While better than Klum, The Sherriff was obsolete before it was built. If UH wants the Pac-12, then making a larger arena is going to be a subject revisted. Nebraska will rule the attendance record from now on. Once again UH thinks like an island not nationally.


  32. po'okela:

    you all sound like bitter trolls who are just upset that they didn't get a chance to watch the wahine scrimmage.


  33. Maverick:

    Hawaii knows how to make money, as the women's volleyball program is the only profitable one in the country. Comparing the NU and UH events is like comparing guava and passion fruit. One is run by an athletic department, the other by the booster club. We have spent so much energy on a non-issue.

    On a more interesting note, I learned the Wahine has secured the commitment of a 6'6" OH from Sweden and 7'2" MB from Russia. Both are the top recruits in their respective countries who have decided to delay their professional careers in order to come to Hawaii. The Swedish MB was quoted as saying, "I love the islands and the fans. I'm going to convince Coach Shoji to have a free preseason scrimmage and reduce ticket prices by 75% because the fans are entitled to it." The other was due to complete gender-reassignment surgery in Moscow this winter prior to coming to Manoa. Ivan Drago, who will be going by the name of Ivanna post-surgery, believes she was meant to come to Manoa and is already talking trash: "To all Wahine opponents, know this, I will break you."


  34. eMpTy:

    Everyone is looking at it the wrong way. The event is open to the public for a charge of not $10.00, but for a charge of $150.00. With the charge of admission, you get to be a booster club member for free for a year. In essence, Hawaii made more money for the event than Nebraska.


  35. XML808:

    Cindy, thanks for the insight. Frankly, I don't see what all the fuss is about. Any parent involved in a booster club knows that the dedicated organizers 1). do not get paid for what they do; 2). give up many hours of their lives to get the various functions completed; 3) do not receive any public recognition for the VERY important role that they play. And you will always notice it's the same people time and time again who do this. If the extra perks are enticing, PLEASE join the boosters and contribute your sweat and tears. Goodness knows they could always use a helping hand.


  36. bowsfan:

    The SSC is closed and not used during the summer, school starts today so maybe SSC student staff can't start until today. I think its better to have it closed to the public, less headaches and expenses. Look at what happened with the Wonder Blunder and Mens basketball post season games we paid to play, we lost money. Sometimes when we chase money we lose it, keep it simple and for boosters.


  37. turfwar:

    Thanks wampam. In other words put up or shut up. No one is barred from attending. If you want it that much then join the club! What don't you understand. The real loss of income is not the volleyball scrimmage it's the free admission to Wahine Softball all season. Heck charge $5-$10 dollars (kids free) and at least help cover field maintenance and maybe some post game meals for the program.


  38. LC:

    I agree softball is another place where UH should start charging a small fee, ditto for SandVB if they ever get the on-campus facility built.


  39. andy:

    if you want to watch the final practice/scrimmage, join the booster club. if you're too cheap to join but still want to complain like LC and DF, well too bad. go cry to your mommy. these guys act like spoiled children who don't get their way. i don't think LC and DF are really Wahine fans. they just like to see their crap in the blog and annoy Cindy.
    its basically practice, and no one will pay to watch practice and they shouldn't be asked to.


  40. Dedicatedfan:

    I am guessing, the Wahine Booster Club has all the money it needs to support the Wahine Volleyball Team. Since they turned their backs on a golden opportunity to raise money for the Wahine Volleyball Team. In that regard, we, the public, should not see, or hear, any announcement from them to attend any event to raise money for the Wahine Volleyball Team, at least for the remainder of this coming school year.

    23. Cindy, I really do not think you really get it. It is about money, and how much money the Booster club could have raised for the Wahine Volleyball Team. We, the general public, keep hearing how the Athletic Department, and Booster Clubs, need money. For either one to pass up a Golden Opportunity, like this, makes one wonder, just how much does the Athletic Department, and Booster Clubs, really need money.


  41. Hapaguy:

    I really don't see what all the fuss is. If it's that big a deal why can't the booster club "host" the scrimmage and charge the public to attend. The booster club can provide volunteers for the event so it won't cost UH any money. At the end of the event the booster club can "host" a pot luck with the team that only the booster club members can attend. Maybe they can sign some more boosters from the public that are there....win win....


  42. Dedicatedfan:

    37. Finally, somebody who really understands. Hapaguy, thinking you should be the President of the Wahine Booster Club. You really do understand how to go about it. Thank you.


  43. Cubicle1126:

    wow, this whole issue is being blown completely out of proportion. lc and dedicatedfan, once again, are grinning from ear to ear for all the drama caused. lol


  44. LC:

    OMG hapaguy is a thinker.This is what I'm talking about folks people who are creative thinkers.


  45. bowsfan:

    Since LC and dedicatedfan have so much passion for this issue, have you personally contacted the appropriate individuals (Ben Jay, Dave Shoji, SSC staff, Wahine volleyballbooster club president). No use complaining about this year, be the solution if your passion is that great, please help it happen next year and round up the volunteers. Waiting for your update soon.


  46. nana kokolele:

    One specific observation I'd like to bring to a respectful and mature audience is this; was The Sheriff obsolete from the beginning? I vaguely remember that the discussion years ago was for UH to decide on building a venue with more than the roughly 10,250 seats the arena holds. If i'm not mistaken Sheriff himself was for a larger venue than what it became because he knew in the near future that most BCS schools were going to build huge arenas. Either the Hawai'i legislature or UH's administration or both opted for the smaller arena probably based on fear of retaliation from the community. I believe this is the crux of the problem. Nebraska has the larger arena so from now on, they will be able to hold more fans. If UH wants in the PAC12 like Jay has said, then the Arena's size will have to be a subject of discussion. Any thoughts Cindy?


  47. hollycow:

    The bloggers who are all talk and complaining here, are you supporters of the Wahine volley program in any way? Do you attend the matches at all?


  48. LC:

    Check out the Nebraska scrimmage.

    http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/journalstar.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/af/cafadf18-1840-58c7-b160-0938b03457cf/5219915b2d288.preview-620.jpg

    http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/journalstar.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/c0/4c09dbf7-cd91-53e5-989f-0752fba92196/5219915ce4949.preview-620.jpg


  49. LC:

    Photo from the Nebraska scrimmage.Looks like a fun time.

    http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/journalstar.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/af/cafadf18-1840-58c7-b160-0938b03457cf/5219915b2d288.preview-620.jpg


  50. volleyball fan:

    So, it sounds like Nebraska will beat Hawaii for the attendance record with their new building. As for free online broadcasts, had I still lived in Oahu I would have rather attended the matches in person and not worry about buffering or other broadcast glitches, whether online or on TV. However, I do agree that they charge for tickets more than any other volleyball program, so that might keep a lot of potential fans away. I wonder how much Nebraska would charge for volleyball tickets?


  51. Ron:

    Dear DF, How much have pledged for each ace? How much have you pledged for each block? I'm guessing zero. Lc just likes to rile the people because of his own short comings. You two deserve each other, why don"t you start your own blog. Oh thats right, no one would read it.


  52. Warriorfan:

    Dementedfan doesn't even go to games in person, he's admitted to that.


  53. RedZone:

    Maybe people should just join the booster club?


  54. Warriorfan:

    Looks like the diggin Na Wahine blog has a new post about how Nebraska "gets it", Yup defeinitely LC is behind that blog.


  55. Warriorfan:

    Changing the subject a little bit after last nights MTV VMA's it made me realize how I really hope the person in charge of music at the SSC does NOT decide to play that awful and overplayed Robin Thicke song all season or that ridiculous Miley Cyrus song. I couldn't stand all the times they played "call me maybe" last year.

    The new Katy Perry song would be okay. ( If i had to pick one)
    I really hope the person in charge of the music sees this.


  56. wop ur jaws:

    One specific observation I'd like to bring to a respectful and mature audience is this; was The Sheriff obsolete from the beginning? I vaguely remember that the discussion years ago was for UH to decide on building a venue with more than the roughly 10,250 seats the arena holds. If i'm not mistaken Sheriff himself was for a larger venue than what it became because he knew in the near future that most BCS schools were going to build huge arenas. Either the Hawai'i legislature or UH's administration or both opted for the smaller arena probably based on fear of retaliation from the community. I believe this is the crux of the problem. Nebraska has the larger arena so from now on, they will be able to hold more fans. If UH wants in the PAC12 like Jay has said, then the Arena's size will have to be a subject of discussion. Any thoughts Cindy?


  57. Dedicatedfan:

    A lot of people, including me, do not care to attend any of the booster club functions. To pay over $100, just to see a scrimmage, is nuts. But if the Booster Club would have charged anywhere from 5-8 dollars to watch the scrimmage, I would have attended it. With all money gained from the admission price going to the Booster Club, no problem.


  58. LC:

    How can I own that blog Warriorfan when they said nice things about the boosters club ? Dude you are a lousy internet detective

    BTW they used the term golden opportunity and DF used that same term twice here but does that make him the owner ?


  59. Warriorfan:

    Sorry dude it's obvious that's your blog and you are "flexibleflyer" on that warrior ohana board.


  60. LC:

    I might even be you.


  61. setaone:

    50. The fee isn't just for the scrimmage. It is also to help the team cover other costs including recruiting, post game meals for both teams, and summer school.

    If you, or anyone for that matter, feels so strongly for having the scrimmage "open" by charging admission, maybe you should bring it up to the booster club president?

    Let's also remember that just because you feel so strongly for something doesn't mean that everyone feels the same way. There may be a lot of people that want to see the scrimmage and there may not be.


  62. Dedicatedfan:

    55. How much did the Booster Club raise, Saturday, to help the team cover other costs including recruiting, post game meals for both teams, and summer school, as you say. I am thinking, zero. How much would they have raised, to cover those costs, if they had opened the scrimmage to the public. I know a lot more, then zero.


  63. wampam:

    Dedicated fan,

    You obviously don't know how the athletic department works. If charging an admission for the practice could cover all operations cost and generate a profit they would do it. Whenever an event could generate monies for the booster club (ie spring matches) and was profitable they assume control of the event and place the funds into the general athletic dept fund. SO, if it were profitable.... they would do it.


  64. setaone:

    56. Who know how much they would have made. They would make more if you joined the booster club and went to the scrimmage instead of b!tching that you were excluded.


  65. Dedicatedfan:

    setaone, guessing you never learned how to do math.


  66. setaone:

    59. Lets see.

    If you joined the booster club they would make $175.

    Even if they opened the scrimmage to the public by charging $10, they still make $165 more by you joining.

    $175 > $10. That's a greater than sign.


  67. LC:

    I don't want to join the Wahine's AARP club just open the scrimmage to everyone before I sue.


  68. Cubicle1126:

    Dedicatedfan and LC make it sound like the booster club has this deep-seated ulterior motive to keep the scrimmage exclusive and closed. when really, it sounds like it was just a tradition that was started back in the day, and has continued on that way.

    traditions change every time. maybe the booster club will recognize it. but the proper forum for change isn't necessarily on this blog. but someone has to trigger it. you guys just want the change to happen, without having to do any of the work, even trying to get Cindy to be your gopher in all this. reality check, fellas, that's not her job. i agree with what people are saying on here that if DF and LC want change, then step up and be the trigger. otherwise, you guys just sound whiny.

    and that's really what i take issue. the hawaii fan experience is leagues better than most, if not all, other programs. nebraska being the program that can rival that fan experience -- and now with their upgraded facilities -- even has the potential to surpass it. i won't be surprised if they do, and i think that's great. it's good for the sport as a whole, for fans and non-fans alike to see volleyball get this type of treatment and attention.

    but non-booster hawaii fans are NOT -- as LC has lamented on here -- "second class citizens." that's a term that traces its roots to the civil rights movement. i would hardly compare (1) holding a scrimmage for the booster club members only, to (2) disenfranchised people being forced to sit in the back of the bus, or to have separate, unequal facilities. it's an analogy that is wholly inappropriate (even ridiculous), and far from the truth, especially considering all the things that hawaii fans can enjoy, notwithstanding not being able to attend a single scrimmage. things can always be better, but the hawaii fan experiences is hardly the dredges that it is at other programs.


  69. LC:

    It is really up to UH athletics to recognize that there is an opportunity here to possibly make some money. As Cindy noted the scrimmage at Nebraska was put together by the program and Nebraska athletics,so why can't we do the same here ?

    Remember that it is UH that has control of the SSC the marketing and ticket sales all of which are necessary to do what Nebraska did.

    Maybe someone can answer this because I don't know the answer.Who put together the spring match, was it the program and UH Athletics or the boosters club ?

    me folks by now the President of the boosters club,Dave Shoji, Ben Jay and even the layers are aware of what is oin on withhis so called debate.


  70. Dedicatedfan:

    60. Guessing I will have to do the math for you. 1000 people attending the scrimmage, at $10, equates to $10,000. That does not include the cost for parking, on a Saturday would be $6.00 per vehicle.

    $10,000 > $175

    I repeat, setaone never passed math. Needs to also have his/her eyes checked, since I will not be the only one in SSC watching the scrimmage.


  71. LC:

    LOL I have no idea what that is at the end.

    I think it is suppose to be... trust me folks by now the President of the boosters club,Dave Shoji,Ben Jay and even the players are aware of what is going on with this so called debate.


  72. Cindy Luis:

    again, this was a special event for Nebraska.
    UH's last practice of two-a-days has never been set up to make money.
    Practices have been closed for 2 weeks. this practice was open for the boosters, who then went on to do the potluck.


  73. setaone:

    64. Check your math. If you take those same 1000 people and they join, that is $175,000.

    $175,000 >>>> $10,000

    That is assuming you would have 1,000 people at the scrimmage. To be fair, that is also assuming the same 1,000 people would join the booster club.

    Put you money where your mouth is or just shut it already. I'm sick and tired of your attitude.


  74. Cindy Luis:

    LC, quit being so rude.
    I have paid to get into the arena when I am not working. I do not take free tickets.
    You complained about not being able to go to what was a practice. It was run the way the two-a-days have been run. except the team wore number uniforms, which allowed them to post stats more quickly.
    .Just asking if you were planning to go to the scrimmage with the Wahine alumnae, Which was what the Nebraska event was all about.
    And sorry LC but by being here you are part of the flock.


  75. Cindy Luis:

    65. what would you sue for?
    AGAIN, the coach closed the practices for 2 weeks. his right.
    The practice, which ended with a scrimmage where players changed sides so it couldn't even be called a Green-White, was open the last day because the booster club had a potluck planned.
    It isn't a fund-raiser.
    Nebraska held an official event, run by the university, opening a new facility.


  76. Cindy Luis:

    61. spring match put on by the program.


  77. Cindy Luis:

    Not sure when the comment from Wop Ur Jaws/anakokolele will show up or when. It was in spam, approved it so, when it does, here's the answer

    No, originally there were two choices, 4,000 and 10,000. The arena coaches didn't want the smaller arena but at the time it looked like that was the only thing that was could get built. The money was being tied up. There was no BCS conspiracy. There was no BCS on the horizon. We're talking 1990. Sheriff died in 93.
    Sheriff held out for 10,225. they got the money approprited. it has since expanded to 10,500.
    They do have an option to add more seats by raising the roof.


  78. LC:

    Well folks it was a pleasure yanking your string today but I have an appointment.


  79. mainlandgal:

    Cindy -- to change the subject completely (this one is well due to be done!) did you or anyone you know make it out to the Sand tournament on Saturday to take a look at the new sand recruits? Heard Cook is the real deal, there was a lot of buzz on Riggs and how she has improved tremendously on the court and Tiegs will be competing this season. Seems as tho the girls are back and ready to get down to business.


  80. Cindy Luis:

    76. sorry, no. didn't make it to the sand tourney.


  81. Cubicle1126:

    thanks Cindy for the additional clarification. i think you are right ... people are forgetting that this "scrimmage" was still technically part of the 2-a-days practices. this wasn't an official scrimmage, at least it sounds like it wasn't. it seems like the boosters are invited to attend this last practice, where a team scrimmage is held to close out the practice, in part because the boosters are holding a potluck for the team at the end of it.

    nebraska's event was their alumni match. which i'm guessing they either hold every year at this time before the season starts, or perhaps they made special plans to hold it at this time to commemorate their new arena.

    the last 2-a-day practice/scrimmage versus (for hawaii) ... versus the alumni match (for nebraska) ... those really are two very different events.

    essentially then, what is being asked for would be unfeasible. DF and LC are asking that the school charge admission for fans to attend practice. the alumni match for hawaii isn't scheduled for later in the season (and someone can clarify whether admission is charged for that... i just don't recall right now off the top of my head).


  82. setaone:

    Cindy. Re your comment 73. I didn't say anything about suing.


  83. cocobean:

    Too bad we can't see ourselves as others see us. In this "debate" over the last UH scrimmage some people have gone overboard in defending their point of view which on the surface has it's merit. It's gotten to the point where to call them pompous would be a compliment.

    They act as if they're smarter than everyone here. Also smarter than the coaches, the boosters and the AD. I don't know the character of everyone who seems to have gone overboard but one guy for sure has absoutely zero creditibilty...check his posts throughout the years.


  84. Cindy Luis:

    80. sorry, think when I approved some comments. they pushed others down the thread.
    79. yes admission is charged, general admission.


  85. crazy4wvb:

    Cindy....THANK YOU for all that you do. can we get back to WVB...please! do you know if Dave have decided on a line up? from everything you've said it would appear that the line up would include Tai but it's not certain if it would be LS or RS. MB would be by the situation...ANY other info would be great


  86. Cindy Luis:

    LC did 'ask' for me to get Shoji's take on Nebraska, think the term used was 'challenge.'
    He was impressed by what had happened. and said he'd look into. This was before he knew all the details
    That it was a one-time thing for Nebraska, opening the new facility.
    I do think, however, that Hawaii could use its alumnae match as more of a fundraiser if they could get some of the big names to return, such as Eagye, Willoughby, Kahumoku, Ljungquist, Bown.
    Collins would be in season coaching so that won't happen. Bown and Danielson not because they are playing pro.
    But UH's alumnae matches have drawn decently. There are more people there (think it's $10) than most schools get for a regular match.


  87. cocobean:

    credibility.


  88. mauna:

    Cindy I think the title of this particular blog should be titled "The debate between the Wahine scrimmage and Nebraska's alumni match".


  89. Cindy Luis:

    Agree with you although Nebraska billed it as the Red and White Scrimmage.
    It was also more UH's final practice of two=a=days rather than a true scrimmage.


  90. Dedicatedfan:

    setaone, you really think everyone that attends the scrimmage if it were open to the public would buy into the Booster Club. Where is your head at.


  91. Cindy Luis:

    91. DF, that's not what he/she is getting at but any further discussion seems pointless.
    Currently, the final practice of the 2-a-days is closed to all but the boosters, who provide a meal for the team and their families. If one wants to see the practice and mingle with the players during the potluck, it's a perk of booster club membership.


  92. setaone:

    Dedicatedfan. It's all "what ifs". For every money making venture there is a break even point. You are assuming that if the scrimmage was open to the public it would meet that break even point.

    The reason that the booster club does not need to share in the expenses of the scrimmage is that it is not a sanctioned event, like the spring match. If the booster club were to charge admission then they would need to "rent" the arena as it no longer is "just a practice." Other expenses that would be incurred would be security, maintenance and other costs associated with running an event there.

    Now I know that since you are in the fifth grade (or at lease write, read and comprehend at that level) you don't understand the theories of economics, you hopefully will some day.

    I don't know how you even became this entitled that you feel the school, team, and boosters owe you something. Get a life. You will soon learn there is more to life than whatever agenda you are trying to push.


  93. mauna:

    If things don't change, if you know a booster member and if he hasn't invited anyone, you can be a guest of his. Each booster were allowed to bring in two guests to the scrimmage and also the potluck with the team and coaches for free.


  94. wop ur jaws:

    Hey Cindy thanks for the response. Not sure what it means to most schools if the had the highest attendance record as UH has had. Schools would be thrilled to have more than several thousand attned their matches.

    With Nebraska making a challenge to UH's attendance record, does UH have any desire to fight for the highest attendance title in the future. If so, then I would think it would make sense to figure a way to increase seats. Of course the arena has to filled more often for more matches before that happens. Just looking at seats vs seats, Nebraska has more than UH now.


  95. wop ur jaws:

    Hey Cindy thanks for the response. Not sure what it means to most schools if they had the highest attendance record as UH held. Schools would be thrilled to have more than several thousand attended their matches.

    With Nebraska making a challenge to UH's attendance record, does UH have any desire to fight for the highest attendance title in the future. If so, then I would think it would make sense to figure a way to increase seats. Of course the arena must be filledto capacity more often before that happens. Just looking at seats vs seats, Nebraska has more than UH now.


  96. Gramy:

    If you want a fundraiser hold a Dave Shoji Retirement Party and send out invites to all the former Wahine, no game, just show face and thank Coach Dave and fans. Hold in a field or gym and you'd get all the Wahine fans you could ever want to see in one place and can take a "Thank You" picture for Coach which can be sold as a memrobilia item I'd want some then and now posters of teams/players, too. Go Wahine!


  97. Cubicle1126:

    was this scrimmage during the last practice even technically a "booster" event? it's sounding more and more like it was the last practice before classes started, and the coaches invited the boosters to attend. and the boosters, in turn, provided a potluck for the players, coaches and families.


  98. jm2375 (iPad):

    Kinda of a silly discussion, but I need to clarify a few things. Postgame meals for the various teams are provided by the booster clubs, not the AD. For softball, a dedicated group, led by Dale Titcomb, provides all post game meals with the booster club helping to offset the cost.

    For men's vb, booster club volunteers provide the meals out of their own pocket. We may feed one of the opposing teams one night each season, which is usually a potluck for all boosters. The club provides support (monies and manpower) for all mvb activities, including the upcoming golf tournament, the A o Koa fundraiser dinner, and the team banquet.


  99. barefoot in kailua:

    All this talk about missed opportunities (for not allowing the public to have the option to view the recent scrimmage) is dumb. How many people would have attended? I have been a Wahine season ticket holder since 1991, and I wouldn't have paid to watch the scrimmage. Other Wahine fans that I have talked to have indicated that they had little interest in watching an intersquad scrimmage, especially so closen to the season opener. There was no missed opportunity here.


  100. Grammy:

    First, I'd like to say, this is not a debate at all. It is a circular conversation with people taking entrenched positions. Second, I'd like to say if you really want to raise money for Wahine Volleyball, hold a Dave Shoji Early Retirement Party every year until he actually retires. Invite the Wahine from different era not to play but to just show face and take then and now team and player pics. Collect all the Wahine Volleyball fans either inside the arena and take a panoramic picture of the full SSC or gather them outside on a field and get a really big crowd then present that poster to Coach Dave when he does retire. Sell t-shirts to say "I was there for Wahine Volleyball". Or just ask for donations on the way out of the games. I bet you'd get more than you thought you would receive. Go Wahine! I think I'm being facetious that is half-serious.


  101. Brian:

    First, I'd like to just say that it is a blast to see folks so interested in the volleyball program anywhere caring so much about it that they are willing to debate it here. Fun to read through the posts.

    I was at the Nebraska red-white game on Saturday and it was a great atmosphere. I don't think that anybody here was surprised that it was sold out given that 1) everybody wants to see the remodeled building, 2) there was interest around the alumni in the game and 3) its the first great chance to see the team and to get to know the players. I think that people around here would be stunned if the same game would be sold out again next year although there is enough of a volleyball-craze around here that it should certainly be respectably attended. It is so hard to get regular season tickets (as it is for the football team) that this is the only game that a lot of people have a good chance of getting. Depending on how the team does and given that there are 4,000 more tickets floating around for each game—that may change.

    Somebody mentioned that they didn't even know if we have a volleyball booster club. We do. http://huskersathleticfund.com/team-support/volleyball/match-club/. They have special events throughout the year. I am not a member.


  102. Sharene:

    I am just excited waiting for the upcoming season and I cannot wait for Friday.

    Cindy, you are a gem! I enjoy your blog and savor its information. I usually enjoy reading comments but I don't like reading so much negativity...the longer your post and the # of your posts (saying the same old thing) does not make you correct. We cannot second guess the coaching staff...they have information we are not privy to and information that should not be public. These are college girls...few are over the age of 21...we should be supportive of their energy and efforts and give them the support they need to win those games instead of engaging in useless debates that may have nothing to do with our UH wahine rainbow team.

    Go bows! This is YOUR year!


  103. bowsfan:

    If we want to make money like dedicated fan wants, we should have no live broadcasts of games so attendance will rise. If a team wins they show it over and over again, if they lose we can only see it about 2 - 3x. UH makes it too easy to not go to games, since dedicated fan will pay for a scrimmage than why not pay to see a actual game, that how we can help UH make money.


  104. Dedicatedfan:

    99. You are forgetting one important thing. The University of Hawaii is a State run institution. Oahu, is NOT the only island in the State. From all recollection the State of Hawaii, also includes the Islands of Hawaii, Maui, Lanai, Molokai, Kauai, and Niihau. What are those people, on those islands suppose to do, buy a plane ticket, also, to watch the Wahines play.


  105. mauna:

    Blackout Oahu.


  106. Cindy Luis:

    thanks brian. appreciate you dropping in and the feedback.


  107. jmy:

    I know the main point here is about NU making big bucks on a scrimmage, but what's bigger news to me is that UH may very well lose the attendance war this year...I know that the Wahine will always draw great numbers, but if NU will average 8000+, then UH will probably lose out...If UH can sell out a few, that may help. Looking at the Huskers' schedule, it looks NU will sell out when they host Penn State...


  108. Cindy Luis:

    107. that reality has not been lost, just obscured. You can find references to it in several posts.I'm assuming they'll go with tickets issued, which will should be 8,000-plus for NU. turnstile count could be another matter but the NCAA isn't looking at that number in its count.


  109. mauna:

    What is the concern about losing the attendance war with Nebraska. We should be more concerned about keeping the same attendance numbers rather then slowly losing the average attendance count. Lincoln and Omaha are within 30 miles apart and have twice the population as Oahu. If the interest is at the same level as here, they should get a higher average number in Devaney Center.


  110. jmy:

    109, Not so much a concern...It's just a nice feather in UH's cap...


  111. Cindy Luis:

    109. no concern. just a note. and a fact. and a matter of pride.
    they do not count the Omaha numbers in Nebraska's attendance. That is a neutral site. The revamped Devaney Center is now 8,000 plus. they've already sold more season tickets than UH. so they will average more, most likely, unless UH has a sudden surge. UH has 3 more home matches. they likely will have the overall attendance numbers. but Nebraska is poised to move ahead of UH in average attendance nationally.


  112. mauna:

    The mention of Omaha in my post is in regards to the nearness of the two cities with the combined population and I would believe that there are Omaha residents who are season ticket holders.


  113. Brian:

    While you are all concerned about losing your record for highest attendance, folks here in Nebraska are concerned with dropping the record sell-out streak (currently somewhere around 181 matches). While I'm sure that the university will make a big deal out of having the highest attendance if that comes to pass (as Universities do), I think the bigger badge of pride would be having the first financially self-sustaining volleyball program (at least that's what we've been told). Regardless of how everything pans out this season for Hawaii or Nebraska — let's hope it's a good one!